哲學界大訴苦

[Daniel_Cheung]

英美哲學專業裡，有一個著名博客，近日刊登了一篇文章，是一位資深教授批評新人不肯捱苦，只求去名校教少許書，有很多時間做研究。但這觀點立刻被人量哲學人（教授或學生）批評。有些訴說自己的經驗多麼辛酸，有些提醒大家不要走入這行業......有興趣朋友不妨看看。

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2009/01/do-young-philos.html

[horace]

其實這問題不只是哲學教授的問題﹐基本上每個行業都有的問題。我在大學讀電腦的時候﹐都係幻想著畢業後做start-up﹐做一些好勁好有趣的project﹐過幾年start-up IPO就可以做百萬富翁退休去也。現實就係大部份工作有趣的地方比較少﹐刻板但重要的工作比較多﹐同埋沒有付出與收入不成正比咁著數。研究純學術的哲學喎﹐接近完全不事生產(至少在一般人眼中如是)。如果你唔教書﹐點解大學要俾幾十萬年薪養你﹖

[Daniel_Cheung]

可能你未看那些回應，那裡才是「主菜」。例如這個：



After my two years of 4/4 adjunct work I got a "good" job, so I thought. I have a 3/3 load, colleagues I like, a union job that pays very well, and a nice big house. Why am I applying out and thinking of leaving the profession since I KNOW I am a lucky one from a lower 40 Leiter school? (Really I feel lucky, but my wife asks for what?)

Let's start a list:

(i) We are geographically isolated in a town of 10,000 people with 10,000 students. The *regional* airports are 90 minutes away. International is three hours away.

(ii) My wife cannot get a raise at her job. She hates her job b/c it is not fulfilling. There are no other jobs for her to get. In this town, she is considered a lucky one.

(iii) My stepdaughter hates it here and hates me for moving her here. There isn't a child therapist in the region for her to talk to about her problems.

(iv) There is a shortage of MDs. I have the best health insurance in the region, but it took THREE years to get a doctor AND I sit on the hospital's ethics board. I had to beg them to help me get a doctor. No one is accepting patients. It is amazing.

Would I like a book store? Would I like an acceptable restaurant (I am not talking Thai here either)? Would I like a place other than WalMart to shop? Yes, but we don't even have basic amenities here, and as much as I agree with Pence, some of us have it bad, and I haven't even talked about the shitty students that make me want to never grade another written assignment.

So, for me, I can deal with most of this b/c I am getting to do philosophy (really), but the burden it has placed on my family is quite high, and I might have to give it up for them b/c this place is not getting better and if history is our guide, it won't either.

Quality of life is a function of a lot of things. Since I didn't have health insurance as a graduate student, not going to the doctor didn't really bother me, but now that I am 39, I need to go to the Dr. I need basic services especially if I cannot be near friends and family or live in nice weather.

Watching my wife look at her friends and mine on Facebook makes it all the more difficult to point to all the great things philosophy has given US (not just me, but us since that is who I am selling this to -- us).

The American dream that everyone should go to college is false and it is making a lot of people unhappy b/c they don't want to be in school.

I should also tell a story about two interviews I had at places that said they wanted to start PdD programs. I asked each of them why. One group said EXACTLY. I got an on campus and nearly got that job. The other group before this question were a bit rude and negligent in how they handled the interview. When I asked them why, they got mad and defended their greatness.

So, to conclude, I agree with a lot of what Pence says, but my place will never be Birmingham, and I would kill to live there, but some of us do have it bad and some things really are defeaters for jobs, but you don't know until you are three to five years into a place. Hope will make you stay sometimes.

There are too many doctoral programs and too many people getting sucked into the temp job work. The profession and the people in it are generally good and have high expectations, but a bit more from my view would be great.

Posted by: Midwest Phi-er | January 09, 2009 at 04:16 PM

[nkcwong]

英美哲學專業裡，有一個著名博客，近日刊登了一篇文章，是一位資深教授批評新人不肯捱苦，只求去名校教少許書，有很多時間做研究。但這觀點立刻被人量哲學人（教授或學生）批評。有些訴說自己的經驗多麼辛酸，有些提醒大家不要走入這行業......有興趣朋友不妨看看。

http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2009/01/do-young-philos.html

跟我在這裡說的不謀而合﹕
http://www.s-h-c.org/forum/showthread.php?t=10359

我有這麼一個想法。從華人社會（包括教會）的精英文化角度看，若你拿到博士後在一間名不經傳的大學任教，並不一定會提高你在公共空間說話的公信力。

除非已經有建制人士作後台，若你不是畢業及任教於名牌大學或在Fortune 500任要职等，在華人社會及教會是不會有很大牙力的。

[wonggk]

除非已經有建制人士作後台，若你不是畢業及任教於名牌大學或在Fortune 500任要职等，在華人社會及教會是不會有很大牙力的。

Even if you are a real big name in your field, you may still be outcasted if you don't follow the official party-line of a Chinese church.

My friend and fellowship brother (who himself is a real big name space scientist) shared this story with me just last night:

One of his high school classmate, who is now a chair-professor and former dept. head in Harvard, had to leave his Chinese church in Boston because he did not vote Republican!

[nkcwong]

Even if you are a real big name in your field, you may still be outcasted if you don't follow the official party-line of a Chinese church.

My friend and fellowship brother (who himself is a real big name space scientist) shared this story with me just last night:

One of his high school classmate, who is now a chair-professor and former dept. head in Harvard, had to leave his Chinese church in Boston because he did not vote Republican!

That's true. If you graduate from and teach at Harvard and if you are as socially conservative as they are, then you are going to be put on the pedestal. They'd think: "Wow. This guy is so smart and yet so religious." But if you dare to depart from the official line even in the least bit, then they'd say: "See. We told you. What good can come out of Harvard but liberals?"

[horace]

One of his high school classmate, who is now a chair-professor and former dept. head in Harvard, had to leave his Chinese church in Boston because he did not vote Republican!

How did his church know whom your friend voted? I thought your vote should be your privacy.

Is there any law in US against political-party affiliation discrimination? Can a boss fire his employee for not voting on the same side?

[Daniel_Cheung]

對於不想失業的我來說，日後若找到美國 community college ，都已頗滿足，有沒有足夠空間做研究，那是後話了。最緊要先有工作和穩定生活－－最好也有個家。那些討論裡說有人不想去差的學校教書，我卻沒有這想法，可能因為有自知之明，很難跟別人競爭。但是，有一點我也很難接受，就是要去十分偏遠的小鎮教書。想起都怕！

[sbchan]

How did his church know whom your friend voted? I thought your vote should be your privacy.

Is there any law in US against political-party affiliation discrimination? Can a boss fire his employee for not voting on the same side?

Boston Legal has such an episode in season 5. If it is a private company, it appears that the boss can fire his employee by many reasons.... =(

[horace]

對於不想失業的我來說，日後若找到美國 community college ，都已頗滿足，有沒有足夠空間做研究，那是後話了。最緊要先有工作和穩定生活－－最好也有個家。那些討論裡說有人不想去差的學校教書，我卻沒有這想法，可能因為有自知之明，很難跟別人競爭。但是，有一點我也很難接受，就是要去十分偏遠的小鎮教書。想起都怕！

你有沒有考慮過返香港教書﹖在香港教﹐不論教那間大學﹐香港交通方便﹐住那個區都可以。反正如果入不到R1大學﹐教美國的community college也是研究dead end﹐教香港的大學人工至少好些。

[wonggk]

How did his church know whom your friend voted? I thought your vote should be your privacy.

Is there any law in US against political-party affiliation discrimination? Can a boss fire his employee for not voting on the same side?

Voting is private. But which way you lean politically is easy to find out, unless you keep your month totally shut.

During the past several years, especially prior to 2006, if you expressed any anti-Bush administration opinion in church, you were automatically labeled as anti-Christian value.

And if you are a big name person, the leaders will want you to openly support them. Mere refusal to endorse them is enough to be rejected.

Legally an employee cannot be fired because of how he voted. But there are many reasons to fire an employee. In many states, no reason is needed to fire anyone.

[Daniel_Cheung]

你有沒有考慮過返香港教書﹖在香港教﹐不論教那間大學﹐香港交通方便﹐住那個區都可以。反正如果入不到R1大學﹐教美國的community college也是研究dead end﹐教香港的大學人工至少好些。

有的，如果入不到研究級大學，其實香港也就不算差。不過，香港工作機會始終少，我也不太清楚可以怎樣在美國留意香港的 job opening 。

[Daniel_Cheung]

說得最灰的應是這一個 post ，這人轉了行去做三藩市 bartender ！




After finishing my doctorate, I left philosophy for a completely unrelated discipline, and don't (at least at this point) do any philosophy independently.

I decided not to go into philosophy for a lot of reasons. Three reasons are high on the list (in descending order):

1. Living in a cosmopolitan urban area DOES make your life better. Working in philosophy means you probably can't live in such a place.

2. Teaching unprepared students philosophy, which in my opinion requires a high level of background knowledge in history, math and science to appreciate, is very frustrating.

3. Teaching doesn't pay very much.

These are all features of the academic job that everyone recognizes, and are included in Prof. Pence's post.

Prof. Pence, and others I take it, argue that 1-3 shouldn't bother those truly interested in philosophy because an academic job means you can be part of a grand tradition with Plato et al.

The problem is, the number 1 reason I left philosophy is:

Real number 1. The professional aspect of academic philosophy (what makes all the lifestyle sacrifices worth it, supposedly) is terrible.

First, many academics just aren't serious. They are more interested in thinking they are Socrates or constantly name dropping their Alma Mater, than in actually working hard on hard topics. The peer group, in this regard, doesn't always seem better than the student population.

But, second and most importantly, being in the philosophy career (again from my experience) means constant abuse from your superiors. Tenured professors calling people "spoiled", "entitled", "without a clue", "whingers", etc. Perfunctory readings of work followed by grand statement such as "this is all garbage". The fact that the dissertation process is 1 part philosophy and 9 parts appeasing ego.

Perhaps this is just hazing, and I would have learned something else if I'd stayed in the career. But I have to ask, can anyone say they haven't been to a colloquim where a faculty member strolls in 30 minutes into the presentation, waits for the question and answer and opens up with "Maybe I missed this, but don't you think your approach can't possibly work?"

My current career doesn't excite me like philosophy did. And I do feel like I have many important and interesting things to say. But, after 6 years in grad school, I didn't really feel that the community of philosophy profs was the kind of audience I wanted to be in dialog with.

I'm not sure whether I confirm or invalidate Prof. Pence's point. I did in fact leave academia to "bartend in San Francisco" (although you'd hope a PhD can do better than that...) But part of the reason I left academia is because of this type of sanctimony that treats people as morally inferior because they want to live in a place with more than just white people, go to a good restaurant here and there and yes, check out a museum every once in a while.

Posted by: Greener Pastures | January 10, 2009 at 10:19 AM

[sbchan]

你有沒有考慮過返香港教書﹖在香港教﹐不論教那間大學﹐香港交通方便﹐住那個區都可以。反正如果入不到R1大學﹐教美國的community college也是研究dead end﹐教香港的大學人工至少好些。

其實香港的位置競爭比美國還大。反而香港的community college較有機會。

[clement]

其實香港的位置競爭比美國還大。反而香港的community college較有機會。

關鍵之一是中學有沒有A-level哲學教育或類似科目吧...... (當然，認受也重要，例如如果法律學系覺得英文＋哲學好＝有優勢......這肯定有推動作用)

[clement]

說得最灰的應是這一個 post ，這人轉了行去做三藩市 bartender ！
First, many academics just aren't serious. They are more interested in thinking they are Socrates or constantly name dropping their Alma Mater, than in actually working hard on hard topics. The peer group, in this regard, doesn't always seem better than the student population.

But, second and most importantly, being in the philosophy career (again from my experience) means constant abuse from your superiors. Tenured professors calling people "spoiled", "entitled", "without a clue", "whingers", etc. Perfunctory readings of work followed by grand statement such as "this is all garbage". The fact that the dissertation process is 1 part philosophy and 9 parts appeasing ego.



但我們單憑一面之辭，很難判別是他真的有問題而不自知，還是他無問題而老是被欺負........................而且也要考慮是哪間學校......................

照道理，頹頹廢廢的學人反而要求低，很容易讓學生們簡單通過考核，直接間接也幫助自己建立門派或者一定聲望............

[Daniel_Cheung]

但我們單憑一面之辭，很難判別是他真的有問題而不自知，還是他無問題而老是被欺負........................而且也要考慮是哪間學校......................

照道理，頹頹廢廢的學人反而要求低，很容易讓學生們簡單通過考核，直接間接也幫助自己建立門派或者一定聲望............

當然這是一面之辭。但另外要留意，現在揀論文題目，實在太多選擇，頹廢學人的學生很多時不會做那學人的題目，所以，即使容易讓學生通過考核，並不能幫自己建立門派聲望。而且，既然頹廢，那就很可能無能力自立門派了。

[nkcwong]

其實香港的位置競爭比美國還大。反而香港的community college較有機會。

我跟一個朋友的朋友通過電話，他在一間美國tier 3的學校哲學畢業，回港後現在在一間community college教，每學期教6科，還要做committee service，而且是renewable contract而已。他說，純是商業/學生主導，就是基於學生的評估為renew contract的基礎，所以他說他的考試題越來越淺。

[Daniel_Cheung]

我跟一個朋友的朋友通過電話，他在一間美國tier 3的學校哲學畢業，回港後現在在一間community college教，每學期教6科，還要做committee service，而且是renewable contract而已。他說，純是商業/學生主導，就是基於學生的評估為renew contract的基礎，所以他說他的考試題越來越淺。

美國的community colleges 是否仍有 tenure-track ？

[nkcwong]

美國的community colleges 是否仍有 tenure-track ？

有的，但我懷疑他們想請的是有community college教學經驗的，我可肯定他們不會請tier 1，甚至部份tier 2及有很多論文出版--無論是否高質數--的人，因為他們不想你將他們視為跳板，教一下就走。tier 3畢業的人是他們搜獵的對象。

[chestnut tree]

其實香港的位置競爭比美國還大。反而香港的community college較有機會。

香港新高中及高等教育學制（即「三三四」學制）推行在即，大學校長都說會大幅增聘教員，由此看來大學教席因而會在未來幾年有所增加。新的四年本科課程也可能多添所謂的通識科目，對專修哲學而有意在大學教書的人或許會比較有利。此外，聽說香港中文大學的新生在新學制下，會在入學首年才決定主修課程，弱勢學系或學科（即較為冷門學系）可能因收生不足而面臨削減經費的威脅。哲學系並非文學院的弱勢學系，而且該系一直為全校提供多種通識科目，相信未來幾年也會增聘人手。

[clement]

香港新高中及高等教育學制（即「三三四」學制）推行在即，大學校長都說會大幅增聘教員，由此看來大學教席因而會在未來幾年有所增加。新的四年本科課程也可能多添所謂的通識科目，對專修哲學而有意在大學教書的人或許會比較有利。此外，聽說香港中文大學的新生在新學制下，會在入學首年才決定主修課程，弱勢學系或學科（即較為冷門學系）可能因收生不足而面臨削減經費的威脅。哲學系並非文學院的弱勢學系，而且該系一直為全校提供多種通識科目，相信未來幾年也會增聘人手。

哲學系從學生數量來說，可以說是很弱勢的，只是教員多參與了通識教育工作，所以感覺上不怎麼弱勢吧了。

試假設，如果很多學生都不去選哲學，學生人數大減，只是賺得通識學額，這還是很難存活下去的。若情況持續這樣極端，像理工型大學那樣，單純請通識 lecturer，就足夠了；其他學者可以安心做好科研。
　
　
　
　

[Daniel_Cheung]

以下的，不只是哲學界的苦情，更包括其他科目：

Grad Students Think Twice About Jobs in Academe
California study says would-be professors want family-friendlier careers
http://chronicle.com/weekly/v55/i20/20a00102.htm　（須要有 subscription 才看到的。）

...Ms. Doran, who is married and the mother of a 2-year-old girl, already struggles to balance the demands of her family life while pursuing a Ph.D. in social welfare at the University of California at Berkeley. Networking with peers in the evenings typically means barely seeing her daughter and her husband, also a graduate student. The possibility that her daughter won't land a summer slot this year at her Berkeley-run day care is enough to send the couple into a tailspin....

According to new research from Berkeley, Ms. Doran's negative view of faculty life at a top research institution is common. The large study of the University of California's graduate students revealed that less than half -- 29 percent of women and 46 percent of men -- perceived major research institutions to be family-friendly workplaces for tenure-track professors. While in graduate school, many begin to think about other careers paths....

More alarming for research institutions, the study also shows the career goals of Ph.D. students shifting as they progressed toward their degrees. Forty-five percent of men and 39 percent of the women surveyed intended to become professors at a research institution when they started their doctoral program. However, once into their programs, the numbers dropped to 36 percent and 27 percent respectively. For some, careers in business, government, or industry were more attractive at that point, despite the family-friendly reputation teaching institutions had among respondents....

The survey also shows that "a bad job market" was the reason 30 percent of women and virtually the same percentage of men decided against pursuing careers as research professors. Since the survey was conducted, rocky economic times have caused faculty hiring to grind to a halt at many institutions, meaning even more graduate students could decide to make a switch for the same reason....

[if_chf24]

根據我的女朋友在香港某社區學院的教學經驗, 我有時想, 張兄如果去這些學校教書會不會被學生激死?

無論如何, 今年下半年, 我將會開始我的博士後生涯, 看看上主會否讓我有一天可以當大學教授吧.

如果可以選擇, 我其實想去新英格蘭多於喬治亞州. 不過, 亞特蘭大在學校附近. 還可以吧.

[callmejeanwong]

I don't know about the academia, but economy had been developing very quickly in the South, including Georgia, at least before the recession. In addition, things, e.g. houses, in the south are much cheaper.

[Daniel_Cheung]

根據我的女朋友在香港某社區學院的教學經驗, 我有時想, 張兄如果去這些學校教書會不會被學生激死?

無論如何, 今年下半年, 我將會開始我的博士後生涯, 看看上主會否讓我有一天可以當大學教授吧.

如果可以選擇, 我其實想去新英格蘭多於喬治亞州. 不過, 亞特蘭大在學校附近. 還可以吧.
為了工作餬口，不能考慮太多。:)

祝你一切順利！

[clement]

日本居然有一種博士，叫做「単位取得満期退学」，即是好像是修滿學分，沒有完成博士論文，但參加學術會議發表研究成果等等的成績，又足夠讓他成為研究者。既然已經找到工作，本來的論文就一直沒時間完成。　:D




単位取得満期退学
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1312104123?fr=rcmd_chie_detail

[clement]

還有一種「指導認定退学（研究指導認定退学）」：
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1311452873?fr=rcmd_chie_detail

不熟悉日本的情況，到底「研究指導認定」是指什麼呢？



當了「課程博士」之後，還可以在一定時間內，重新遞交博士論文，通過後便成為「論文博士」。　:confused:

[nkcwong]

每讀這類報導都覺得學術性哲學是很曲高和寡﹕

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29375476/

很多人現在讀書只是掙扎求存為養家為兩餐，能保住飯碗已經萬幸了。