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Daniel_Cheung
04-30-2007, 10:18 PM
教哲學最痛苦應是批改學生的文章,尤其是,哲學系多數要為全校學生提供通識,他們來修課,不是認真的,只為求取個像樣的 grade 過關。今個學期,我如常地要求他們交一份 term paper , 4-5 pages, double-lined ,是看過三篇論文後的評論。得罪講句,十篇有九篇是垃圾!以下特徵幾乎在每一份功課裡都找到的:


說自己相信一些與某論文作者相反的觀點,但完全不理會那作者提出過的反對論點。
大概是電腦 word processing 造成的文化,很多句子和段落是斷連沒有關係的,明顯是剪剪貼貼的後果。
全篇文章沒有提出過甚麼觀點,只是 A 如此如此說, B 如此如此說,這點幾「好」,那點我「不喜歡」。
留意,他們是用「好」、「我相信」、「不喜歡」,他們絕大部份都不會說:「這個不合理,因為......」。
即使是美國白人,英文文法水平都極度低落。用 conversational English 本無不可,畢竟我要求不會太高,但他們可以懶到連 conversational English 裡那些 incomplete sentences 都照寫出來,不改為 complete sentences 。更過份的是,例如 "itself" 可以寫成 "is self" 。


今個學期這一班學生比較差,我懷疑上學期和下學期是有分別的,下學期的學生,即使一年級生,都已習染了走堂和開派對,根本就無心向學,但一見到自己取得分數低就發難,說甚麼「I tried hard. I deserve a better grade 。」 Come on! 盡了力的人,也可以因為自己能力太弱而成績差的!不直接說您蠢只是因為基本禮貌而已(和怕學生拿槍來報復)!更何況,我才不相信您有盡過力,連文章裡的文法錯誤都懶得改,這算是甚麼盡力?

今次改文,唯一安慰的是尚未看到有學生抄別人的文章。

這樣就是大學生了,將來出來社會工作,更不會有機會學到甚麼是認真思考。我不是要悄悄地把甚麼啟蒙理性論述灌輸他們,但他們連最基本的思考能力都沒有,社會沒有未來。

本校已是 midwest big 10 ,屬全國 second-tier 的大學,undergraduate program + campus life 在全國是名列前茅的。

Garlic
04-30-2007, 10:29 PM
:em12:

Daniel_Cheung
04-30-2007, 11:46 PM
讓我舉一些例子:

其中一篇論文是說文化相對主義雖然流行和多人認同,但卻是不成立的。部份學生談到那文章時,說那作者支持的文化相對主義很合聽,十分贊成!:em12: 另外的,大部份學生都是說,文化相對主義很正確,看看不同文化的人的言行就可知道。但這一點正正是那作者說不足以證立文化相對主義的,那些同學連這作者反對這點都不知道,或視而不見。

有一篇論文是休謨和 Goodman 批評歸納法。但絕大部份學生說科學很好(下刪數百字),歸納法是正確的科學方法,並且半點不談休謨和 Goodman 所說的。

我不是說我要求他們反對文化相對主義和歸納法,但他們跟本不是在證立自己的觀點,只是說自己喜歡某個結論,並且過程中無視那的理由是否成立。:em12:

Tim
05-01-2007, 01:57 AM
...得罪講句,十篇有九篇是垃圾!...
有一事想問,你最终會給他們的評分是?(佢地最终攞咩Grade?)
那一篇不是垃圾的應該給A啦。九篇垃圾中較好的3篇給B,另3C,3D。

還是怎樣呢?

Daniel_Cheung
05-01-2007, 02:15 AM
有一事想問,你最终會給他們的評分是?(佢地最终攞咩Grade?)
那一篇不是垃圾的應該給A啦。九篇垃圾中較好的3篇給B,另3C,3D。

還是怎樣呢?

我只是說 10 points out of 15 points 之類。暫時,他們平均大約是 9/15 。 Optional paper 的平均是 4/10 ,他們明顯地以為只要草草寫五頁廢話,我就會 grade by effort 地給高分數。Grading by effort 在美國很流行的!他們不理會他們的錯誤是多嚴重,總之有「盡力過」,即使絕對是胡亂地寫了幾段滿足字數要求,都會要求你至少要給一半分數。這個,我教了六年書,仍是接受不到。

Grade 只是把全學期總數合計後,再略按比例來決定,所以我「安慰」他們說,如果全班都是這麼差,其實對他們最終拿的 grade 未必有很大影響。唉,無辦法,美國大學有 grade inflation 。但今次的確想給一些差的 grades 給他們,他們至少有一半人平日上課已是很不專心,又或走堂的。:mad:

Daniel_Cheung
05-01-2007, 02:22 AM
Grading by effort 是很愚蠢的事,會產生一個怪現象。甲同學不懂得計那條數,所以留空了,說自己不懂。因此,他全失十分。乙同學也是不懂的,但他故意寫一些垃圾,按 grading by effort principle ,他可以取五分,甚至,若他幸運,碰巧某幾個字是正確答案裡有出現的,他可能可以取七分。換言之, grading by effort 鼓勵學生說謊,把學業當成一個要 play smart 的遊戲,而失去了一份單純學習和面對自己不足的心態。

Daniel_Cheung
05-01-2007, 03:27 AM
不好意思,又來發牢騷。

實在要吐血而死。有一個女學生,學期過了三分一時已對我說,很擔心自己跟不上,說會以後每星期找我問功課。她後來想過 drop the course ,但結果仍留下。只是,她沒有找過我,一直亦不見得有努力過。上星期交了 term paper and optional paper 後,發電郵給我說,她報讀了商學院,這科需要 B- 或以上,但她都明白我不能因此給她一個很不同的 grade 。我心想,如此有心,若她取了 C+ ,我便加少許吧。怎料,剛才看她的 term paper 和 optional paper ,我明明要求了要四、五頁的,她竟然只交兩頁給我!幾小時前我以前某學生的文章已是全班最差的,十句英文有八句是不合文法的,幾乎連猜他說甚麼都不可能猜到,左抄右抄,他跟本不知道自己在做甚麼。怎料,這女學生顯示了低處未算處。

唉,他們有時真是連送半點同情分都不值得。

clement
05-01-2007, 09:13 AM
這個現象(發難現象)會不會在美國特別嚴重,在香港沒那麼嚴重?香港部分學生固然也有「頹」、得過且過的心態,或者將閑聊吹水當做有point,但他們不至於會一見到自己取得分數低就發難,不至於說「我盡了力,應該獲得更好成績」。我猜想,美國少年教育比較encouraging,很少會直接當面說不好,就算明知很不好很差勁很糟糕,也會儘量說些安慰的說話:「你已經盡了力,其實已經好好了」。這些說話,當然只是安慰的話,因為「盡力」同「好不好」沒有關係,「盡力」只能博取同情分;但聽得多,習以為常,學生們會否真的以為「盡力」=「好」?但這樣在溫室環境呵護備至下成長的人,未必可以容易接受風雨,未必可以容易接受壓力,未必可以接受容易現實。

我想,問題未必在於他們真的愚蠢,而是太多玩耍,太多地方去花費精神時間,沒有真的「盡力」,或者起碼不會「盡力」在一些沒有即時實利的事情上。


我會鼓勵人們,如果想要成長進步,便要聽取真正意見,改善自己,不要(只)去找一些encouraging, comforting的人,不要跟自己程度相若、臭味相投的人來作比較(使得自己感覺保持比較良好--社會心理學便提到類似的現象,例如隨地丟垃圾的人會說「其他人也隨地丟垃圾啦!」來為自己辯解,彷彿多人做就是對),要去請教一些肯坦白說真心話、說批評話、說實話、說「不好」(當然假定這個「不好」是有根據的,不是情緒化的)的人。--當然,如果本身是心靈脆弱、軟弱無力、無法面對自己的一群,當然不適合聆聽真相、追求真理。那麼,應該先去把自己的內心狀態調理妥當。
 
 
 
 
[後加:況且現在流行講「包容」,亂想東西亂寫東西的人也紛紛要求別人予以包容,否則便指控對方不夠「寬容」,奇怪。我當然不反對創意,但也要言之有物才行。] 

clement
05-01-2007, 09:25 AM
我只是說 10 points out of 15 points 之類。暫時,他們平均大約是 9/15 。 Optional paper 的平均是 4/10 ,他們明顯地以為只要草草寫五頁廢話,我就會 grade by effort 地給高分數。Grading by effort 在美國很流行的!他們不理會他們的錯誤是多嚴重,總之有「盡力過」,即使絕對是胡亂地寫了幾段滿足字數要求,都會要求你至少要給一半分數。這個,我教了六年書,仍是接受不到。

Grade 只是把全學期總數合計後,再略按比例來決定,所以我「安慰」他們說,如果全班都是這麼差,其實對他們最終拿的 grade 未必有很大影響。唉,無辦法,美國大學有 grade inflation 。但今次的確想給一些差的 grades 給他們,他們至少有一半人平日上課已是很不專心,又或走堂的。:mad:

Grading by effort 是很愚蠢的事,會產生一個怪現象。甲同學不懂得計那條數,所以留空了,說自己不懂。因此,他全失十分。乙同學也是不懂的,但他故意寫一些垃圾,按 grading by effort principle ,他可以取五分,甚至,若他幸運,碰巧某幾個字是正確答案裡有出現的,他可能可以取七分。換言之, grading by effort 鼓勵學生說謊,把學業當成一個要 play smart 的遊戲,而失去了一份單純學習和面對自己不足的心態。


如果區分 effective effort 與 ineffective effort,便不會產生寫垃圾得分的情況了。例如在香港的數學考試,steps的推算本身可能佔八分,正確答案只佔兩分,那麼同學就算沒有找到正確答案,也可以根據 effective effort 來獲得分數,但不會發生寫垃圾得分的情況。

另外,我覺得 "拉 curve" (根據比例評分) 也是很費解的事情。如果全部人都拿A或者A-,也可能要根據比例將某些人的分數降到B+, B;反過來說,如果大部分人都拿C或者B-,也可能要根據比例將某些人的分數降到B, B+。如果整個文化都是瀰漫著不學無術、不求甚解的學習氛圍,則很容易出現「共愚」的情況:大家表現都不好,但卻可以獲得不錯的分數。

況且現在在大學,如果給學生不及格,教師往往要撰寫報告,解釋情況,否則會影響對老師的評價,彷彿老師要為同學的不及格負責任。老師有時怕影響自己,就算明知不及格,也要給他們「過關」。。。 

nkcwong
05-01-2007, 09:34 AM
這是很普遍的現象。我從一等學府到社區大學都教過,只是程度上的分別而已。無辦法,現在唯有隻眼開,隻眼閉,否則會有很多人不及格。學生來講,我比較喜歡教在職的,他(她)們的學習態度認真,縱使程度上不及那些認真的全職學生,但因為在社會工作過,知道沒有學位不行了,也會多點尊師重道,我對他們也多點體諒。可是那些剛畢業的美國高中生,還是以party心態讀大學,走堂,上課看報紙,當你無到......

銀狐
05-01-2007, 10:02 AM
我想問,哲學的本科生會不會好一點?

有時,令問題惡化的其中一個原因,便是抱著得過且過,反正都是通識科,合格便了事的心理來讀,這也大有人在。

另外,在他們的本科裡,他們的學習態度又是否如此差劣?本科的教授如何評價他們的學生?

nkcwong
05-01-2007, 10:07 AM
Grading by effort 是很愚蠢的事,會產生一個怪現象。甲同學不懂得計那條數,所以留空了,說自己不懂。因此,他全失十分。乙同學也是不懂的,但他故意寫一些垃圾,按 grading by effort principle ,他可以取五分,甚至,若他幸運,碰巧某幾個字是正確答案裡有出現的,他可能可以取七分。換言之, grading by effort 鼓勵學生說謊,把學業當成一個要 play smart 的遊戲,而失去了一份單純學習和面對自己不足的心態。

如果區分 effective effort 與 ineffective effort,便不會產生寫垃圾得分的情況了。例如在香港的數學考試,steps的推算本身可能佔八分,正確答案只佔兩分,那麼同學就算沒有找到正確答案,也可以根據 effective effort 來獲得分數,但不會發生寫垃圾得分的情況。



教書這麼多年,起碼以哲學文章而論,我也不相信grading by effort。假如有學生A and B。學生A只花了10個小時就寫了一篇論據有力,行文清晰,組織嚴謹的論文,但是學生B花了100個小時還是寫了一篇思想混亂,文法錯误百出的垃圾文章。不能只是因為同情學生B,就給他不應該得的評分。最多我會請B到我的辦公室,額外花時間幫助他(她)而已。

我的標準是grading by demonstrated performance (實質表現)。就是縱使有「寶劍在心中」,如果沒有show出來,我是無法grade的,只能grade what is on paper,不能grade what is only in the mind。如果沒有show出來,我怎麼知道學生想什麼?評分不能靠估的。所以就算有很好的ideas,但是如果不能好好組織,present 出來時候文法錯誤百出,不知其所以言,還是不能得到好的評分的。

Clement說的effective effort,其實也是demonstrated的。如果沒有demonstrated 的effort,是不能評分的。但是如果Clement指的"effort"是包括學生花了多少時間,那麼恐怕就不能作為評核標準了。所以我還是覺得demonstrated performance比較適當的評核標準,因為一個人的 實質表現 與他(她)花多少時間或put in 多少effort 不一定成正比的。

clement
05-01-2007, 10:53 AM
我想問,哲學的本科生會不會好一點?

有時,令問題惡化的其中一個原因,便是抱著得過且過,反正都是通識科,合格便了事的心理來讀,這也大有人在。

另外,在他們的本科裡,他們的學習態度又是否如此差劣?本科的教授如何評價他們的學生?

大概是人的心態問題(當然,多人如此,便會構成風氣,群體效應)。就算是哲學學科,也有一些渾渾噩噩的人,當然也有一些認真向學的人。

Daniel_Cheung
05-01-2007, 12:00 PM
這個現象(發難現象)會不會在美國特別嚴重,在香港沒那麼嚴重?

我印象中在美國較多這類學生,但因離港七年,不肯定香港的情況。

我想問,哲學的本科生會不會好一點?

有時,令問題惡化的其中一個原因,便是抱著得過且過,反正都是通識科,合格便了事的心理來讀,這也大有人在。

另外,在他們的本科裡,他們的學習態度又是否如此差劣?本科的教授如何評價他們的學生?

我未教過本科的,不知道。

我的標準是grading by demonstrated performance (實質表現)。就是縱使有「寶劍在心中」,如果沒有show出來,我是無法grade的,只能grade what is on paper,不能grade what is only in the mind。如果沒有show出來,我怎麼知道學生想什麼?評分不能靠估的。所以就算有很好的ideas,但是如果不能好好組織,present 出來時候文法錯誤百出,不知其所以言,還是不能得到好的評分的。

對啊,十分同意。但好些學生不是這樣想。

if_chf24
05-01-2007, 02:23 PM
看來,劍橋大學的本科教育,是值回學費的,起碼,同學之勤力,世界少見(我當年不是好懶,但也不是好勤力)。我們每個星期都要交幾篇essays(不計分的),大家一般都會努力做,因為交不到寫不出是很沒面子的。(英國人也要面子呀!)

Demonstrated effort is important....也許,我當年的effort就是沒有好好被 demonstrated,因為我不太會在劍橋考試(在香港考得好與在劍橋考得好沒有半點關係,因為若A-level沒有3A或以上,你都不可能在劍橋讀本科),所以當年成績很差。

Daniel_Cheung
05-01-2007, 04:18 PM
看來,劍橋大學的本科教育,是值回學費的,起碼,同學之勤力,世界少見(我當年不是好懶,但也不是好勤力)。我們每個星期都要交幾篇essays(不計分的),大家一般都會努力做,因為交不到寫不出是很沒面子的。(英國人也要面子呀!)

Demonstrated effort is important....也許,我當年的effort就是沒有好好被 demonstrated,因為我不太會在劍橋考試(在香港考得好與在劍橋考得好沒有半點關係,因為若A-level沒有3A或以上,你都不可能在劍橋讀本科),所以當年成績很差。

:ani_clapping: :ani_bowdown2:

經過這些特訓,人會進步許多!


順帶一提,剛計了全學期總分,原來那 term paper 真的影響不到他們很多,有不少人已取了 B+ or above 。

314
05-01-2007, 07:30 PM
Does the teaching evalutaion matter you?

In my school, the employment of summer teaching assistant depends on the evaluation. If the TA is too harsh, then...:em12:

I almost lose the support for this summer. If I really don't have it, I will get paid again in the midst of September. I estimate that I need to spend $2500 (rent+tuition fee+ daily expenses) in this summer.

I need to learn how to maintain the rules and standards without provoking the students.

wonggk
05-01-2007, 08:38 PM
I haven't taught undergraduate students in decades, but let me share my 2 cents on teaching a "core" master level class: For several years, I taught the Health Informatics class to MPH and MHA students. This is a required core class but most students really didn't have any interest in it, so it may be similar to Daniel's freshman philosophy class.

I think the most important thing not to get a bad evaluation is to have a clear and well-defined syllabus, and stick to it religiously. From the very first class, tell them how they would be evaluated and teach according to this. For example, instead of just saying that a term paper is worth 40% of the grade, I would give them a break-down of the grading critieria, such as 30% for content, 20% for organization, 10% for writing ...

But I also emphasized to them that I want to evaluate them on what they need to know, and not to "weed out" the students or to fail someone. I did not care if evenone got A or everyone failed.

After every assignment I would show the grade distribution. Usually I would have a pretty "normal" curve, without having to do any curving. When they saw that some classmates actually got good grades, they could not complaint that I was a bad grader.

I had a few students arguing for grades. I think more international students did that than American students. May be graduate school GPA means a lot less for American students. All they want is a degree. International students may need good GPA to apply for PhD programs, or they are just more sensitive to grades. In this case, I would usually "chew up" their work and made them feel really bad. I could do that because I was an easy grader, so it was easy for me to point out serious mistakes to pick on.

For term paper, efford did and did not count. If they turned in trash, I would give a bad grade. It did not matter how much "efford" they had spent. But if they really wanted to show their efford, they were encouraged to show me drafts of their paper. I would comment and gave feedback so that they could improve. Only the final paper would count, so if they really put in their efford, they naturally would have a paper that's acceptable to me. Because my offer was open to the entire class, it was very fair to everyone. This was the way I reward students who were willing to work hard for a good grade.

Of course, this meant that I might be doing a lot of reading. But actually not very many students took advantage of this offer, so this allowed me to claim the moral high ground and gave bad grades.

I don' t know whether this will work for large undergraduate freshman classes, but it worked for me pretty well.

zhengzi
05-01-2007, 11:34 PM
這個現象(發難現象)會不會在美國特別嚴重,在香港沒那麼嚴重?香港部分學生固然也有「頹」、得過且過的心態,或者將閑聊吹水當做有point,但他們不至於會一見到自己取得分數低就發難,不至於說「我盡了力,應該獲得更好成績」。
香港學生少用這種理由發難,但會用別的理由發難。主要方向就是「卸責」,如:「你沒有教過!」、「你在課堂上只用了很少時間教這個題目!」、「你給的deadline太趕了!」、「這科workload太重!」、「Reference太多,哪有時間看?」、「你要求太高!」.......等等等等,總之就是「此天之亡我,非戰之罪也」。 :em12:

Daniel_Cheung
05-02-2007, 12:40 AM
改完卷,登了分,又有幾個學生發電郵來投訴(電郵令人們太方便亂說話)。因為「不幸地」有半班學生取得 80-86 分,我要在那裡分 A, A-, B+ ,結果他們不滿為何差少許都不可以取更好成績。所謂的 grade on curve 就是這樣的啦,他們開學第一堂已知道和接受這計分方法,只是現在發現差一點點,就走來嘈。雖然勉強總算是問得有禮貌,但某些用詞是頗過份的。所以,即使我已幾乎做足 gordon 所說的,仍是有很多麻煩。

回應 zhengzi ,是的,那個最愛說自己盡了力的學生今次走來埋怨說我出題不清楚,令他以為不用寫得很認真。實在豈有此理!我要求他要讀三篇文章來寫這功課,但有大半篇文章的內容是沒有提及過的,他竟敢說我出題不清楚。我在 essay instruction 已講明,一定要討論三篇文章裡的相關內容,不能抽一兩個來說。他有一點更是自打咀巴的。這 essay instruction 和他沒有提及的內容,我在課堂上說了很多遍,而他今次「求情」的一個藉口是他一直都好認真上課,只是缺了兩次課。完全是廢話!還好意思說自己不想像小孩子在「扭計」,根本已在「扭計」。

安心的是,此事發生在 student evaluation 之後,應該不會對我有太大影響。

Daniel_Cheung
05-02-2007, 12:52 AM
現在批改文章功課,我多數都是電子化的了,用 MS Word 的 reviewing 功能。今次改文,在首幾份時意識到勢色不對,我已很醒目地儘量在每一段或每一個問題後立刻寫上些不太客氣的批評,例如 meaning unclear, this is not what XXX says, you totally miss the main point of XXX, please elaborate, what you said here is contradictory to what you said in the above paragraph 。如此,若有學生來埋怨,我單單請他數一數我寫了多少評語,他就無法遁形,推說我主觀或完全不明白我憑甚麼標準減他的分數。若他不知道我有這些評語(現在很多學生是懶得看老師的回覆的),我更可反過來批評他們胡亂埋怨,令他們知難而退。

有時,不得不玩這些心理遊戲,因為有些學生太無理取罵。

Daniel_Cheung
05-02-2007, 08:13 AM
改完卷,登了分,又有幾個學生發電郵來投訴(電郵令人們太方便亂說話)。因為「不幸地」有半班學生取得 80-86 分,我要在那裡分 A, A-, B+ ,結果他們不滿為何差少許都不可以取更好成績。所謂的 grade on curve 就是這樣的啦,他們開學第一堂已知道和接受這計分方法,只是現在發現差一點點,就走來嘈。雖然勉強總算是問得有禮貌,但某些用詞是頗過份的。所以,即使我已幾乎做足 gordon 所說的,仍是有很多麻煩。

現在終於明白為何有些教授好像無故地把本可以用 100 分 scale 來表達的成績,說成 200 或(更大)的 scale 。因為這樣可接闊學生的成績,心理上他們不會那麼輕易地說「只是差一點就取不到 A ,很不公平!」

wonggk
05-02-2007, 01:38 PM
I have an "unqiue" method in grading term papers and essay exam questions, which I think is more fair to the students, as well as giving me a "better curve".

Although each term paper or essay exam question is worth certain points, when I grade them, I will not assign a numeric grade to them in the beginning. Instead, I will assign a letter grade (A, B, C, D etc.). If I am grading essay exam, I will grade the same essay at the same time, then go to another essay.

When I am done with all students, I will go back and browse their paper or essay again, making adjustments, such as + or - to the original grade. I feel that this is important because when I grade papers, fatigue and other factors may kick in so that I cannot be totally fair moving from one paper to another. Using only letter grades and making one more round after seeing all papers will help reduce this bias.

Then, I will assign a numeric value to each paper of essay. I will setup an EXCEL worksheet to calculate the final grade as I enter the numeric grade. Now I have some room to play: For example, an "A" can be 85-100. I can control what number to put down. With EXCEL, I can immediately know what overall grade the student will get. By playing with the numeric grade, I can avoid students having an overall grade of 89.2 etc. Either I will bump it up to 90 for an "A", or bump it down to a 88 for a "B+". This will give me a much better break in the final curve.

I was able to use this methodology because my classes were usually small (25-30).

enochkun
05-02-2007, 03:45 PM
當我在香港讀書的時候,要寫一些人文學科的論文,我自已個人很容易拿8、9分,而其他同輩若果拿7分都巳經叫神奇,6分巳經叫滿意。6分或者更低分的人無論他們寫多少字,甚至五、六版,根本無用,他們根本只是吹水,然後離題,而我自已通常寫一版,兩版巳是極限,對著那些無聊的題目何需這麼多字呢?

美國的中學老師好像只要你交足功課,無論寫了一堆不知所云的文字或者一堆無用的「垃圾」只要是十幾版,巳經能夠拿A的。我覺得他們有一種「多=努力」的心態出現。


題外話
香港的學校(我所見的)對於文科,根本不操心,歷史、甚至西史,肥左,so what?這是主科嗎?會影響你整體平均分嗎?數學、科學、英文變成最重要的科目,其他的只是「偏科」(這是從我香港那位數學老師得出的在他眼中充份表現出主科高於一切,其他只是無用。)香港的教育制度:「求學擺明求分數。」

看見這個主題講美國和香港的學校大多缺乏人文質素、思考等等,又令我想起,難怪自由宗教在美國這麼流行,因為缺乏了人文質素、思考,對於宗教的認識和理解便多是一知半解、人云亦云。香港教育制度、文化雖然也不完善,但幸好不至於產生「怪胎」。

蒲先生
05-02-2007, 08:54 PM
側聞中國大陸學生勤力許多.....物質條件差就要咬緊牙關.....我見過有位佛塔女職工唔開燈黑到死咁係度抄書刊.......我喜歡呢種拼搏精神......

Daniel_Cheung
05-03-2007, 08:17 AM
I have an "unqiue" method in grading term papers and essay exam questions, which I think is more fair to the students, as well as giving me a "better curve".

Although each term paper or essay exam question is worth certain points, when I grade them, I will not assign a numeric grade to them in the beginning. Instead, I will assign a letter grade (A, B, C, D etc.). If I am grading essay exam, I will grade the same essay at the same time, then go to another essay.

When I am done with all students, I will go back and browse their paper or essay again, making adjustments, such as + or - to the original grade. I feel that this is important because when I grade papers, fatigue and other factors may kick in so that I cannot be totally fair moving from one paper to another. Using only letter grades and making one more round after seeing all papers will help reduce this bias.

Then, I will assign a numeric value to each paper of essay. I will setup an EXCEL worksheet to calculate the final grade as I enter the numeric grade. Now I have some room to play: For example, an "A" can be 85-100. I can control what number to put down. With EXCEL, I can immediately know what overall grade the student will get. By playing with the numeric grade, I can avoid students having an overall grade of 89.2 etc. Either I will bump it up to 90 for an "A", or bump it down to a 88 for a "B+". This will give me a much better break in the final curve.

I was able to use this methodology because my classes were usually small (25-30).

以前常覺得 letter grades 不好,換算做數字時有點不合比例,但聽完你說,又覺得有可取之處。:)

Daniel_Cheung
05-03-2007, 08:34 AM
香港的學校(我所見的)對於文科,根本不操心,歷史、甚至西史,肥左,so what?這是主科嗎?會影響你整體平均分嗎?數學、科學、英文變成最重要的科目,其他的只是「偏科」(這是從我香港那位數學老師得出的在他眼中充份表現出主科高於一切,其他只是無用。)香港的教育制度:「求學擺明求分數。」

看見這個主題講美國和香港的學校大多缺乏人文質素、思考等等......

教育制度變成這樣(不管是它本身設計有問題或人們這樣看它),人們不會在教育裡得到甚麼品格的建立,人的價值的很大程度上只能受流行文化影響,更嚴重的是,他們以為他們已接受了的才是最真確。

正如我今次要學生讀的其中兩篇文章,一篇反對 psychological egoism (所有人的行為都是出於自私的),一篇反對文化相對主義(不是我要說教,那只是哲學讀本裡兩篇較淺白的文章),該讀本前言已明說,這麼多年來,學生反應多是有點不接受,但會漸漸被其中道理說服,有少數學生會想得出社會生物學之類的論調來反對。

然而,今次我的學生,全部都懶得讀,幾乎完全不理會那些文章裡的所有反對論點。他們那篇所謂 term paper 裡,由第一段至最後一段,只是不斷主觀地重覆「我相信文化相對論」、「我相信 psychological egoism 」,然後提出大量很隨便的「證據」,例如「我覺得全世界的人都是自私的啦」、「不要隨便說別人的文化不對呀!」但那些「證據」早就被那兩篇論文的作者 anticipate 了,並且已回應了。他們即使不贊成,也要說說自己為何不能接受罷?!

(如此,可以值多少分?60%都已是多給了!但他們還是不負責任地說「我很努力的,你的問題問得差,我便答不到你的要求......」廢話!若他們讀得明白那兩篇文章,就不會寫這些垃圾,還要充五頁紙,浪費我的時間去看。)

由此可見,他們不單受了流行文化影響,就連反省的能力都沒有,總之自己喜歡的就是對或真。強調求知或求真,至少可以令社會少一些這種人,可惜今天都沒有甚麼人強調這些的了。

竹本口木子
05-03-2007, 08:38 AM
以前在私人学院修课的时候,院方强制性的要求非回教徒上道德教育。这所谓的道德教育,其实是浓缩版的哲学纵览。学生的回应嘛。。。有时课堂就只有老师和我两个人而已。。。

大马私人学院是给龙子凤女们买学位的。道德教育如果对成绩整体影响不大,考个零蛋也没什么大不了。

所以,若要在大马教哲学,最好用交易的态度来教,别太认真,免得气死。。。

if_chf24
05-03-2007, 08:42 AM
以前在私人学院修课的时候,院方强制性的要求非回教徒上道德教育。

Why only non-Muslim? :confused:

竹本口木子
05-03-2007, 08:47 AM
Why only non-Muslim? :confused:
回教徒必须强制上回教课。因为不能叫非回教徒也上同样的东西,所以非回教徒就上这种道德教育啦。

Daniel_Cheung
05-05-2007, 10:46 AM
我宣佈成績時,說要在兩天內交成績給大學。昨天我交了成績,但昨晚竟有一位學生發電郵來哀訴,說他要入讀法律學院,不能夠取 B- ,然後說他可以改寫那篇很低分的論文,又說他很喜歡哲學,因此他 deserves a B grade.

我的回信主要有以下幾點:
1. The lowest score for B is 6 points above yours. Even if I give you a better score in the paper, I won't give a drastic increase of 6 points in the paper.
2. I re-read your papers. Your mistakes are largely serious misunderstanding. I did not take points away due to grammatical mistakes but they show that you were not serious in writing a decent paper.
3. There is no extra credit in this course except the optional paper.
4. I have submitted the grades to the University. Unless there is mistake in calculation, I don't see any reason to change it.

竟然有這麼多文法和串字錯誤, 'themselves" 寫成 'there self",寫文又不認真,把讀本作者的名稱 'Schmitt' 寫成 'Smith' ,得罪說句,我寧願這樣的人不被法律學院取錄。我早就說了不會因此他們現在發現要有一個好看的成績來報讀某學院而改他們的成績,此君還是要問,又說想重寫一篇文章給我云云。我想,美國太多教師對學生鬆手,令到他們現在不能接受自己失敗的事實。有一位哲學教授在辦室門前貼了一些 quotations ,其中提到,現實世界裡是沒有 second chance 的,請學生們不要再發夢,醒來吧。

銀狐
05-05-2007, 10:53 AM
教育制度變成這樣(不管是它本身設計有問題或人們這樣看它),人們不會在教育裡得到甚麼品格的建立,人的價值的很大程度上只能受流行文化影響,更嚴重的是,他們以為他們已接受了的才是最真確。

正如我今次要學生讀的其中兩篇文章,一篇反對 psychological egoism (所有人的行為都是出於自私的),一篇反對文化相對主義(不是我要說教,那只是哲學讀本裡兩篇較淺白的文章),該讀本前言已明說,這麼多年來,學生反應多是有點不接受,但會漸漸被其中道理說服,有少數學生會想得出社會生物學之類的論調來反對。

然而,今次我的學生,全部都懶得讀,幾乎完全不理會那些文章裡的所有反對論點。他們那篇所謂 term paper 裡,由第一段至最後一段,只是不斷主觀地重覆「我相信文化相對論」、「我相信 psychological egoism 」,然後提出大量很隨便的「證據」,例如「我覺得全世界的人都是自私的啦」、「不要隨便說別人的文化不對呀!」但那些「證據」早就被那兩篇論文的作者 anticipate 了,並且已回應了。他們即使不贊成,也要說說自己為何不能接受罷?!

(如此,可以值多少分?60%都已是多給了!但他們還是不負責任地說「我很努力的,你的問題問得差,我便答不到你的要求......」廢話!若他們讀得明白那兩篇文章,就不會寫這些垃圾,還要充五頁紙,浪費我的時間去看。)

由此可見,他們不單受了流行文化影響,就連反省的能力都沒有,總之自己喜歡的就是對或真。強調求知或求真,至少可以令社會少一些這種人,可惜今天都沒有甚麼人強調這些的了。

好奇一問,除了這兩篇文章的讀後回應外,你有沒有給同學其他文章/題目以作選擇?

Daniel_Cheung
05-05-2007, 10:58 AM
好奇一問,除了這兩篇文章的讀後回應外,你有沒有給同學其他文章/題目以作選擇?

有兩個選擇,我只要求寫一篇,另一篇是他們想取 extra credit 就寫的。

銀狐
05-05-2007, 11:19 AM
有兩個選擇,我只要求寫一篇,另一篇是他們想取 extra credit 就寫的。

這些文章都是版權所限的嗎?倒有點興趣看看是什麼來的。

Daniel_Cheung
05-05-2007, 11:30 AM
這些文章都是版權所限的嗎?倒有點興趣看看是什麼來的。

有的。1, 2 和 3 可在網上看到的。

1 W. K. Clifford, "Ethics of Belief", pp. 121-124
2 William James, "Will to Believe", pp. 125-134
3 Alvin Plantinga, "Theism, Atheism, and Rationality"
4 Joel Feinberg, Psychological Egoism, pp. 547-559
5 James Rachels, "The Challenge of Cultural Relativism", pp. 616-624
6 Schmitt, ?Absolutism and relativism?
7 Quinn, ?Divine command theory?
8 Anthony O'Hear, "Induction", pp. 12-34, "Falsification", pp. 35-53
9 Pierre Duhem, "Physical Theory and Experiment", pp. 257-264
10 Rom Harr?, The Philosophies of Science, pp. 35-52

其實只有兩、三比較深,其他的皆顯淺。

我給他們三個題目--倫理、宗教、科學,一個用來做 presentation ,一個用來寫 term paper ,一個用來寫 optional paper 。可惜他們做了/聽了 presentation 後,自己讀完了後,仍然嚴重地誤解那些文章的內容,例如把文章反對的觀點說成是文章支持的觀點,這誤解顯然是,那文章作者在開首表述他不滿的觀點,然後批評,而那些學生看到一半就沒心機,於是憑印象就誤解了。

clement
05-05-2007, 11:43 AM
這些是否你將來開課(開飯)用的道具?

如果不是,你有沒有興趣,將你上課的一些東西,跟我們分享,讓一眾朋友們,可以獲得一個鍛煉思考能力的機會?

Daniel_Cheung
05-05-2007, 12:06 PM
這些是否你將來開課(開飯)用的道具?

如果不是,你有沒有興趣,將你上課的一些東西,跟我們分享,讓一眾朋友們,可以獲得一個鍛煉思考能力的機會?


原來之前我已經把這些上載了,在邏輯班的下載區(要用那個密碼的)。http://www.s-h-c.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=39,http://www.s-h-c.org/forum/showthread.php?t=498

clement
05-05-2007, 12:14 PM
喔,原來是這樣的。 :cool:  

kcjeremy
05-07-2007, 12:55 AM
I totally understand that! Sometimes, during the discussion sections (of any philosophy course), there are people BS-ing all the time! You know they didn't read the material at all, and then they still say a lot of irrelevant things... just like those Daniel mentioned, "I agree with Mr. X... I don't like the idea of Y personally, so I think Y is wrong..." :mad: Seeing too much people like this, I somehow "learned" not to waste my energy and time to argue with those fools (forgive me about using such a term).

clement
05-07-2007, 02:27 AM
By the way, what is BS ?

愚蠢還有藥可醫,但愚頑、故步自封真是無藥可救。

el244
05-07-2007, 03:07 AM
BS = bull s**t

Gladly I didn't see many of these people during my education, but at work it's a very different matter, when people refuse to listen to you after you have done your research to tell them what is right and what isn't, what is feasible and what isn't. Especially when those are the people who should be telling you what to do...

To be 'educated' not only means that one has knowledge, but that one has the aptitude of being continually educated, of seeking and discerning true knowledge (as opposed to BS parading itself as knowlegde).

Enough ranting...!

wonggk
05-07-2007, 09:49 AM
I totally understand that! Sometimes, during the discussion sections (of any philosophy course), there are people BS-ing all the time! You know they didn't read the material at all, and then they still say a lot of irrelevant things... just like those Daniel mentioned, "I agree with Mr. X... I don't like the idea of Y personally, so I think Y is wrong..." :mad: Seeing too much people like this, I somehow "learned" not to waste my energy and time to argue with those fools (forgive me about using such a term).

悲哀的,是教會的主日學和查經班也常常如此 :mad: 。

alexyu
05-07-2007, 10:43 AM
In Hong Kong students were usually very quiet (I am not sure whether it is the same now) and were reluctant to ask questions or to engage in discussion. At that time many people used American students who love questioning and talking as counterexamples. But now, I would rather to see that students don't say or write anything if they know nothing.

I experienced similar things as Daniel when I taught many years ago. I was an easy-grader, but even students who got a B were very unhappy. Some students used very strange excuses for not doing homework: I didn't buy the textbook. Some of them went to the dean or the chair to make noise. From that point on, I realized that teaching is not my cup of tea.


首先很多學生沒有上課,當自己要求學生上課和懲罰曠課的學生時,一些學生說:?你沒有說我一定要上課。?並且去向院長投訴。一位被大學辭退的講師慨嘆說:?從前學生真的大病才缺課,現在學生當大學是夜總會,喜歡便來,不高興便不來。?最近一位同事告訴自己在中學讀書的兒子:很多大學教授不介意學生有沒有上課,因為他們認為學習與否是學生本身的責任。我心想:其實可能那些教授是怕惹麻煩、怕被投訴。

如果沒有上課、但自己有讀書和做好功課,那麼也沒有相干。可是,很多學生連課本也沒有買,也沒有看清楚講義,功課上有困難時只會投訴。我已經放鬆去改卷,不是給?甲?級便是?乙?級,但是得了?乙?級的學生,竟然不但不領情,還說自己應該得?甲?級。我在學期中間詳細列明論文的要求,一些學生在學期剛剛開始、還沒有等我說明論文應該怎樣寫,已經把論文一早寫好,並且拒絕按照我的要求重寫。論文的目的,是要學生把在課程中把學到的東西應用出來,那些學生很快交貨,明顯是只想拿一個成績,而不是拿取知識。

測驗之前我把測驗範圍清楚地說明和白紙黑字的印出來,但是一些考得不好的學生投訴測驗範圍不清楚和題目太難,於是我數數有多少艱深題目,測驗的滿分是二十五分,我給全班加了四至五分,可是一些在加分之後仍然是?乙?級的學生埋怨不公平,我說已經加了很多分數,學生又是毫不感激,說那些額外分數是自己應得的,因為有些題目太難。可是,有些題目很容易,我卻沒有把那些分數收回啊!有一個學生說:?如果我得不到甲級,一定是你有問題。?自己是學生的時候,我和同學都曾經批評教授講師,但是當著面前如此無禮貌,只有在美國大學中見到。

wonggk
05-08-2007, 10:35 PM
今晚回學校做「義工」,做一個 MBA final project 的 panel member。這個 project 學生要做一份 new small business plan 的投資建議書。我參與的 project 是要 direct market 一些服務給某些病人。學生已經是個會計師。

這學生 present 完後,我和另兩個 panel member 齊齊嘔血。他的概念完全行不通,因為根本不能滿足病人的需要。不過這點我們已經不強調了,我們早已調低期望,只想見到他 go through the necessary steps。

但是,這個學生卻連最基本的功課也沒有做。例如他有 direct mailing marketing 一項,卻連 bulk mail 寄出這些 materials 的費用也搞錯。當問他資料來源時,卻只說「已經問過人」,問過誰又說不出,而這是郵局網站十分鐘就可以找出來的。另外他提供的服務主要是通過 cell phone 的 text messaging 來進行,但是他卻完全沒有預算 phone line 和 server 的成本。計劃中的 cash flow 和 break-even analysis 自然完全錯哂!

他 present 完後,我們三個人struggle 了二十分鐘,討論要給他 F 還是 C (MBA 是沒有 D 的,要 overall B 才能畢業)。本來他的 project 就肯定是 F,但是一給他 F 他就不能這學期畢業,也怕他搞麻煩。給他 C 又過不了自己這關。結果選擇了給他多一個機會﹕給他一個 I (Incomplete),然後要他兩星期內重寫計劃書,聲明如果還沒有進步就給 F。

我學校 MBA 不是一流名校,但是學校整體還算是 National Universities 中的Top schools,排名在 Top 100 之內。今晚之前,我還未見過這樣的 graduate student,慘!:ani_banghead:

clement
05-10-2007, 09:11 PM
各位有沒有研究過這份美國報告?我想這份報告很有意思。
http://www.s-h-c.org/forum/showthread.php?p=31783#post31783

if_chf24
05-11-2007, 01:25 PM
May I note the difference between what I heard from you guys in American universities from that I experience myself in England (namely Cambridge, the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine and Imperial College London). It seems that British students are less willing to express their thoughts than their North American counterparts.

When I was in Cambridge, hardly anyone raising any questions after a lecture. When I was in LSHTM, the North Americans are more willing to ask questions than the Europeans, and in turn, Europeans ask more questions than the Asians. When I was in HK, I was told that in universities 'Westerners' are more eager to express themselves and ask questions. It seems to me that this refers to Americans, not the Brits.

This phenomenon was also noted by my friends from North America who visited Cambridge. It seems that in the US, you are expected to speak up in class regardless of whether you have prepared or not. Expression is more important than substance. However, in Cambridge, we were taught that 'we should think before we speak'. There is no pressure on you if you do not ask questions. But there is huge pressure on you if you do not do your required readings or essays.

And I think that Cambridge still maintain a very very strict scheme of marking. In natural sciences, those who mark the papers are NOT necessarily those who teach. The lecturers who teach are required to propose questions which will be put into a pool of questions. A panel is elected to choose the questions from the pool. And then some other people mark the papers.

There is an appeal process. But hardly ever used. I remembered that when I got my 2.2 in my final year, I really want to appeal. But I was told that it is my right to do so, however, I was advised not to waste my time, before unless you could prove the marking procedure or the people involved was unfair to you or have made a mistake somewhere, otherwise, the university will certainly uphold the decision of the exam panel. Given the fact that those who mark my papers were not those who taught me and that papers were not named, but marked by candidate numbers (like that in HKCEE), I had no evidence of being treated unfairly. So I decided not to waste my time appealing.

When I was in Hangzhou, in Zhejiang University, scenarios similar to what Daniel experienced in the US happened. Students, esp. foreign students from Asian or African countries, made excuses to ask the lecturers to give them higher marks. (Excuses given by foreigners include 'My Chinese is not good enough'. I remembered one of my teachers said, when Chinese students study aboard, they have to work hard for their English. Bad English is not an excuse for them if they fail. How come these foreigners can ask me to give them higher makrs if their Chinese is poor? They should just spend more time studying Chinese!)

So I conclude that the system for the same lecturer to be responsible for one single course and thus its exams is a system bound to such kind of problems. My suggestion would be to adopt the Cambridge system in which a course is taught by a number of teachers and those who mark the papers are different from those who set the questions (who do not teach that course). Then the only reason for appeal is that a candidate is treated unfairly or if one of the markers has made a factual mistake, which are very rare.

Daniel_Cheung
05-11-2007, 02:32 PM
So I conclude that the system for the same lecturer to be responsible for one single course and thus its exams is a system bound to such kind of problems. My suggestion would be to adopt the Cambridge system in which a course is taught by a number of teachers and those who mark the papers are different from those who set the questions (who do not teach that course). Then the only reason for appeal is that a candidate is treated unfairly or if one of the markers has made a factual mistake, which are very rare.

但在文科比較困難呢。我這一科牽涉大量邏輯和思考方法,全都有規則可循,才可以比較安全地避過學生指責說改卷主觀。:(